Sunday, 12 December 2010

City specialisation in Grepolis - army composition

City specialisation in Grepolis is a must in advanced stage of the game. City specialisation becomes more crucial than ever, and changing your building layout for each of those cities to only the necessities will optimise the farm spaces left to make troops.
There are many reasons for that. First of all as I mentioned many times before, in Grepolis battle mechanics proportions are very important. The bigger attacking wave the more damage it can deal and in the consequence save more of your units, resources and time to rebuild them. Due to population cap per city and inability to merge armies when attacking we are forced to maximise effectiveness of every single army/wave we send. In Grepolis sending one wave made of 1000 slingers is much more effective and efficient than two waves of 500 slingers. There are also other reasons - its simply time and resources saving strategy. 

In this guide I will show you how to make big Slingers or Light Ships nukes and how to construct a good Colony Ship wave. I will also give few tips about organising your cities to be able to defend your little empire.

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Table of Contents:

General Information

I am going to link each topic that requires more explanations, however you can always visit the Basic Guides and Advanced Game pages to see list of all my guides about Grepolis. Addittionally you might be interested in some nice tools that will help you a lot in your game and planning of your cities.

2.0 Notes
Grepolis 2.0 introduced new farming system and you should invest extra population (which you get by not having "farming forces") into more units - in a naval offensive city into Light Ships, in a naval defensive city into Biremes, in a land nuke city put it in extra 20 LS or just everything into more land units. Of course you will still need to build some troops in each city to be able to conquer farming villages. To be able to conquer 7th village you will need 150 Slingers and to get 8th one you will need to defeat 150 Swordsmen 150 Archers and 75 Hoplites hiding behind lvl 20 walls (extra 103% defense) so that might be the hardest one. Except that basic rules stay the same and this guide is still valid, the only thing that has changed is that now you can make your armies even stronger, so use it for your advantage!

Population cap
To me, a 13K city is a bad city.  Due to population cap per city and inability to merge armies when attacking we are forced to maximise effectiveness of every single army/wave we send to attack (more about land army, types of attack and population cap here). Therefore your army is the first thing on your priorities list, or at least should be. Remember that city must be functional, not pretty. If its an offensive naval city (Light Ships) then destroy barracks, city walls, lower down the senate and anything you don't really need there. Be Spartan about your cities ;)

Also by specialising cities you make your life easier and save some time - you don't have to send 10 waves of support from 10 different cities but for example only from 3. Timing properly 10 waves is much more time consuming than only 3. Also choosing for a city only one role makes things easier and reduce confusion when you have like 20+ of them.

When deciding what type of a city to make, you have to consider your current enemies, future enemies, allied cities, your needs, tactical needs and resources. A lot to think and a lot of things might change, therefore in the first few months of your game play you might want to keep cities half specialised. For example do not destroy totally your city walls in your borderline cities or barracks in a navy city, as you might need them in the future. Also in the beginning there are plenty of players around to farm and you might want to keep a farming party (Horsemen) in your LS city. Once you are sure that nothing is going to change in your close area, then you can specialise fully your cities. More about it later in this guide.

The more cities you conquer the easier it will be to push specialisation of your cities further. Specialising cities is a process. If you manage to specialise your second city (should be land offensive) then kudos for you, or lucky you :) To see how could look a fully specialised nuke city read my guide focusing on nukes.


Farming Forces
If you farm other players from the naval type of cities (those don't have any land units), prepare farming units there. The best suited for that are Horsemen. However soon or later it will happen that there will be no more other players cities to farm on your island and its a waste of Farm Spaces to build transport ships in Light Ship or Bireme city. Therefore when it happens, just get rid of your farming forces in that cities and build more ships instead. Obviously land units cities don't need farming forces. 

Army size vs City size
After explaining the importance of having maximum size army in a single city you might be wondering why I propose in this guide to build up some structures to the maximum level even though they don't make our army stronger and might be seen by some of you as a waste of farm spaces. To understand that you have to take a look out of the box. Yes, the bigger wave the more damage it will do and less units you will lose, however you must also think about what happens between your battles.

You see, if you give your enemy a lot of free time, he will rebuild his forces and you both will come back to square one or he will get an advantage over you in resources. When facing big players you cant win a battle and think its over. You have to keep attacking to hold or increase your advantage. I don't say to keep attacking the same town or a player but in any war you should try to dictate tempo. If your enemy is busy defending, he wont have much time to organise an attack on you (more advanced guide about resources war here)

Therefore, in Grepolis, it is very important how fast you can rebuild your army. The quicker you can hit again, the bigger advantage you will have over your enemies. During war time your queues should be always busy and produce units as fast as possible. More about it in the guide focusing on Resources War.

Once you have big number of cities you will need the Marketplace at least at lvl 20 to be able to move big amount of resources between them. Your Light Ships city will have plenty of spare stone (if you don't use it all to trade with farming villages). This stone can be sent to Slingers nuke city. Your Biremes polis will probably have big amount of silver which you can send to other cities which need it, not always directly for production of units but also to trade it for the type of resources they need. When I had 30 cities I wasn't farming as much as I used to before but was able to always keep my queues busy by exchanging resources between my cities.

High Temple level in the beginning is also a good idea - thanks to that you can gather more Favour Points per day. These points should be used on spells which boost production time (like Population Growth or Call of the ocean) or to boost attack power of your units and in the consequence save more of them.

The main production facilities related to the city specialisation should be maxed to speed up production time. It will be Harbour in naval cities and Barracks in the land cities.

Lastly Resources Camps (Timber Camp. Quarry and Silver Mine) can be maxed in the advanced stage of the game when you don't have that much time to farm. However after 2.0 you can now pay for an adviser and farm them all at once which makes things much easier.

If you think before building anything and plan ahead you will not need Senate at the max level. I've never really had to change Special Buildings, maybe couple of times I switched Divine Statue for the Tower. So once you build your special buildings you can lower the Senate level. Some people might ask "but what if my special building is destroyed by a lighting bolt?!". Seriously, how often does it happen? Never happened to me.

Same with the City Walls, sometimes you just don't need them. When I had more cities, my enemies were never going after these which I kept at the back or even in the middle of my empire. They were always attacking front line cities. Therefore I demolished walls in cities located far from my enemies for extra farm spaces.

The bottom line is that you shouldn't force yourself to save farm spaces on everything. If you cant log in often to farm then Resources Camps should be maxed. If your city is often under attack or near your enemy then keep your walls. However always try to look for things that you don't need. Reevaluate your cities often and adapt to changing condition.

Resources
Regarding resources, on each island you will have 1 type of resource on "+" and 1 "-". Also farming villages trade differently on each island. When deciding what kind of city I'm going to make on a new island I take into consideration which type of resources I can get the most. Sometimes wood is "-" and stone is "+" but there are plenty of villages trading wood for stone so anyway I will have plenty of wood for my navy.
Basically resources wise there are few options:
When a city has lots of wood and normal income of silver its perfect for Light Ships production.
When wood and stone are dominant then its a great place for Biremes city.
Mix of wood, silver and stone is good for mixed defensive polis or conquest city.
Lots of stone is usually for land attack city.

To summarise you should have ( / type of resources on the island after taking into account what farming villages trade the most)
  • land attack cities  / + stone
  • naval attack cities / + wood
  • naval defence/land defence / mixed
  • naval defence / + wood and stone
  • conquest cities / + silver but mixed will do as well
Production camps (Timber Camp etc) are a matter of personal preference but let me just tell you that they are second the most effective way of gathering resources (1st is farming other players). I think that while you get more cities it makes sense to max them as you will not have time to farm for each of your cities. They can also be staggered at different levels based on the type of city and what resources are needed the most.

Also mind that in the beginning when you don't have many cities its easier to farm more often and therefore production camps might seem to not be that important. However soon or later they will become your no.1 source of materials (more about it in my guide about Resources). Why is it good to have Quarry at lvl 40 in a Light Ships city? Because you might need to trade extra stone for more wood/silver or just send it to Slingers nuke city. When I was rebuilding my army after battles I would normally trade/send resources from all my cities. When you have 20+ cities its much easier to just collect resources to full warehouse and then send them to the city which is in need.

Favor Points (FPs) and temple levels
They make a big difference, therefore its best to have high production of Favor Points. Although it doesn't mean you have to max all your temples. You will see the biggest boost in Favour Points production with your first temple and then it will start to slow down. Therefore the situation with temples is opposite to the one with production camps. While acquiring new cities you will be less and less interested in upgrading them to high levels.


The formula to count Favour Points production is: Game speed x (square root of (building levels + divine statues). So it doesn't make any difference if you have 3 temples, all lvl 10 or only 2 temples lvl 25 and lvl 5 or even 6 temples, all lvl 5. All temple levels (per god) are added and treated as 1 big temple.

The only thing to remember here is that for every additional level of your temple you are rewarded with less and less Favour Points/Farm Space in comparison to the previous upgrade. It is something that we can call diminishing returns.

Here is the graph to help you to visualize it. The horizontal axis shows the sum of all temple levels, while the Vertical one, Favour Points you get with each extra level. Mind that this is not a sum of all FPs. The graph only shows efficiency of adding extra levels (without Divine Statue).

Look how many more FPs you get for each extra level. You receive a lot of extra FPs till lvl 5, then it slows down.


By looking at the graph and analysing my example, its easy to understand that it makes sense to build temples fast up in the beginning (for the same god of course) but after you get less and less for your invested resources and population. Everything adds up and helps in production of Favour Points but not that much to really worry about it. If you have only one city then build up your temple as high as possible but it will be probably faster and cheaper to conquer another city and upgrade a temple over there to a reasonable high level.

  • If you have 3 cities worshiping the same god, you can easily have lvl 20-25 temple in each of them, but as soon as you get more cities and make them to worship that god, you can stop upgrading temples (or at least move it down on your priority list).
  • You can also hold on with upgrading your temples to lvl 25 and instead save your population, make bigger army and conquer quicker other cities. First 10-15 levels are cheap and can be build fast.
  • If you have like 15+ cities and each 3 of them worship the same god, then in your new conquered cities, don't really bother with temples.
  • If you have way more than 15 cities then you can actually demolish them down to get back some Farm Spaces.

I don't say to stop your temples development, but once you get around level ~50, don't force yourself to upgrade temples to high levels, which are very expensive and take up population. These extra 5 levels from 20 to 25 will not change that much.


Walls
In the advanced stage of my game I was destroying walls in some cities which I knew that will not be attacked. You ask why? Because we pushed our enemy to defense and were never under heavy attack and even if, then few dodges and LS nuke to snipe enemy CS was enough to defend us (in a conquest world). Sometimes you might get such a strong position and have a great team that you will not need walls in most of your cities. Don't get me wrong - if you need them (and you are being attacked) then keep your walls at maximum level. Grepolis favours defenders and walls provide huge advantage but only in the situation when you have to defend, otherwise they are useless. Evaluate your situation and try to think if you really need walls in some cities. If you don't, then take them down and you will free up lot of population. More about City Walls here.

How many of each type?
I cant really advice you exactly how many of each type of cities you need. It depends on your geographical location, your enemies position, your alliance tactics and enemy tactics and few more...
If your defending tactic is to dodge all incoming waves and hit an enemy CS (Colony Ship) when its already in your harbour then obviously you will need many Light Ships or many Biremes if its your enemy favourite tactic and you are the attacking side. However if players you attack stack defensive units and try to kill as many of yours then of course you will need many more LS (Light Ships) and land offensive cities. Maybe your alliance likes to give each player a different role and you will be asked what type of units you must focus on (more about different conquest tactics in the guide about Organising Waves and Large scale operations).

During my game in Grepolis I was changing cities specialisation many times as I was growing, alliances were changing and with them location of my enemies/threat.  Some alliances forced me to build more Biremes as they were not defending at all and were sinking my CS after it landed using Light Ships. Other alliances were more turtle minded and wanted to drain my resources (not a bad idea) by stacking defensive units and killing all my clearing waves - then I didn't need that many Biremes.

As a general advice I can tell you that its a good idea to keep in the center of your empire defensive city/cities. Place them between all others to have minimal time travel to surrounding cities. That way you will be able to react much faster and send your def units on time when being attacked. In the beginning I liked to have many (30) Pegasus in a city which was closest to all others. When the attack was really serious (many waves and a CS) I was switching god to Athena in the attacked city and sending there all my Pegasus which were smashing all attacking units. However it happened only twice, so my Pegasus city was more like a resources factory for most of the time.

You cant really chose type of resources you get on each island but if its possible its better to keep defensive cities and a CS city closer to the enemy (to reduce travel time of your CS) while offensive naval and land cities keep behind the lines so you don't lose your offensive units in a surprise attack made by your enemy. If an enemy needs more time to reach your offensive cites, then you have more time to react and avoid his attacks (losing fleet of Light Ships when being attacked sucks a lot). Of course the disadvantage of this tactic is that you will also need more time to reach your enemy. Therefore if you are a really active player, then you can risk to have offensive cities located close to your enemy.

Early Stage of the Game (first few cities)

Over specialise and you breed in weakness - Motoko Kusanagi

What I try to say is that in the beginning you cannot and should not specialise to much, unless you are sure that all your neighbours are weak or inactive. I don't want to say to not specialise at all but with some limits. You must use common sense.

At the beginning instead of building your production camps up to maximum level (build them up to ~lvl 15), you should make sure to get your farming villages as soon as possible. Getting first 4 farming villages on your island is very easy and remember to always capture the farming villages with the highest levels first. Keep/make some Hoplites (at least 35) for taking the 4th village. The most effective way of gathering resources is to farm other players and then through production camps. More about resources here.

I will not tell you when you should start to make pure class cities, because I cant. Everything depends on your particular situation. Remember only that you will need to stay offensive to grow but for that you don't need a Navy Offensive city (producing only Light Ships) in your early days - that sort of a city is for advanced game when players can gather big numbers of Biremes. Focus on land offensive cities first.

In the most cases all your neighbours will be at the similar level of development as you are. Therefore use this opportunity to grow fast, attack/farm other players cities and conquer fast farming villages. Every defensive city (the one building only defensive units) will slow your growth down. So if you don't have to, then don't specialise any of your early cities into a defensive one. The best option would be to make your 2nd city a land offensive polis. My first specialised city was city no3 which I turned into a Slingers nuke polis. All players around didn't have at that time strong navies and so the only thing that was stopping me from conquering them were their land defense forces and CPs (Culture Points) which I could gather by killing their defensive troops).

If you read my guides about attacking other players in Grepolis you will know how to win battles with minimal loses. By doing that you will get more Culture Points from your invested resources than from organising festivals and be able to conquer your first city fast. You will need strong offensive forces and this is why I propose to start specialising your cities into offensive ones first and only then focus on defensive type of polis. Also nobody will want to attack/start with one of the biggest players in the neighborhood ;)

Naturally your first polis must be a universal one and will be the biggest for a while - it has to attack, defend, conquer etc. Later on when you conquer new cites it will be still kind of a hybrid city but gradually it will change. During first stages of the game your local alliances will not be huge and you will have to worry more about your closest neighbours rather than far enemies. You will not have a lot of time to react. This is why when you have like 1-5 cities (don't take it literally, basically when you are not that big ;) and don't have time to log in all day long, I suggest that your every polis has a basic number of defensive units (swords/arch/hops), unless you are a very active player (in that case specialising one city for defense should be good enough). I think that this basic defense could be made of 180 swords/60 archers/150 hoplites. During the process of conquering more cities and securing your closest area slowly get rid of these units and start making purely specialised polis. I didn't add the basic defense to the proposed models as they focus only on their specialisations and I didn't want to confuse people.

Because in Grepolis you can stack defensive units you should be ok with this strategy. If one of your polis  becomes an enemy target you will just reinforce it with all defensive units from other cites that you have. Also all of your first cities will be probably very close to each other so supporting shouldn't be a problem. On the other hand, because you limited your defense in each city to such a small number, you are able now to produce big offensive waves (maybe not as big as in a pure specialised polis but still strong) and not waste any of your early cities on defensive specialisation. If, by any chance your enemy is quick enough to park a CS in your harbour, you should have plenty of offensive units to sink it.
That way you can keep your aggressive expansion and still have enough defensive forces to push back any potential enemies.


City Builds - advanced stage of the game


Basically there are 5 types of cities:
  1. Land Offesnive City
  2. Navy Offensive City
  3. Mixed Defensive City
  4. Navy Defensive City
  5. Land Defensive City
  6. Conquest City
Please mind that all numbers have been rounded up. Each of my cities is slightly different however I still can describe a model for each type that I have. For example in some cities I will have 1100 slingers and 30 catapults but in other I will have only slingers without any catapults. Please take these numbers as rough guides and feel free to tweak them a bit to suit you the best.
    Land Offensive City

    Here you can produce 3 types of units: Blunt attack (Horsemen), Sharp attack (Hoplite) or Range attack (Slingers). Most of the time it will be more efficient to build Slinger nukes, however once you get to the stage where you have many land offensive cites then why not to have some blunt and sharp nukes just in case. Only if a defender decides to focus most of his defensive units on Range defense (swordsmen or cerberi) then it is not the best idea to send Slingers.

    In general it is always better to exploit defenders weak point and pure nukes are the best option here. Unfortunately very often we attack blind - even if we have spy report things can change. More support might come in and change everything. Therefore to make things easier I was mostly building slingers nukes which were quick to build. Resources at that point were not as important as ability to build nukes fast.

    If you want to understand battle mechanics I propose to look into my guide about attacking.
    70-80 LS will protect you against 300 BMs instead of 200.

    Squad (with 70 LS escort, if you prefer different size of escort then adjust these numbers):
    Land assault army:
    Slingers 1050-1200 and 20-30 catapults
    or
    1500 Slingers or 500 Horsemen or 1500 Hoplites

    Fast transport ships: ~ 93
    Escort: light ships 50-80

    You have also an option of a slow nuke - instead of using fast transport boats you can use standard ones and get few extra units but paying for it in really slow speed of your attack.

    Technologies 
    breakthrough, phalanx, trainer, conscription, shipwright, catapults, light transport boat, plow, bunks, battering ram
     
    I will repeat it - no point of sending land troops only if they are all going to be sunk by enemy Biremes (Big fails and what can we learn from them). They must be escorted by Light Ships. In conquest worlds use breakthrough at all times when sending land nukes (in the revolt ones, you cant always do that for obvious reasons). Please read my guide about breakthrough to understand why I propose 50-80 LS as an escort.

    Buildings:
    Try to not waste to much population on your buildings - your city must serve you well not look pretty.

    (type/lvl)
    Maxed
    Barracks 30 
    Quarry 40
    Farm 40 always (no population cost)
    Warehouse 30 always (no population cost)
    Cave 10 always (no population cost)
    Academy 30

    City wall 25 unless its really in a safe zone then 0

    Limited
    Senate 15
    Timber camp 20-40 (depends on how much time you have to farm, if not much - max them)
    Silver mine 20-40 (depends on how much time you have to farm, if not much - max them)
    Harbour 15 (for LS escort)
    Temple 15-25 (depends on how many cities worship the chosen god)
    Marketplace  20-25 (depends on your situation, how often you send resources from that city)

    Special 
    Thermal Baths - always in every city
    Nothing for bigger nukes, Divine Statue if you have only few cities (once you get more cities and temples, get rid of them), Tower (if the city is constantly attacked)

    Navy Offensive City - LS nuke

    Squad:
    Navy assault army: Light Ships 220-260
    Farming forces: Horses 130 (only for as long as you have someone to farm on your island)

    Technologies:  
    battering ram, shipwright, mathematics, plow, cartography 

    Buildings:
    Try to not waste to much population on your buildings - your city must serve you well not look pretty.

    (type/lvl)
    Maxed
    Timber camp 40
    Harbour 30
    Farm 40 always (no population cost)
    Warehouse 30 always (no population cost)
    Cave 10 always (no population cost)
    Academy 30

    City wall 25 unless its really in a safe zone then 0

    Limited 
    Senate 15
    Barracks 0-10 (get rid of them when destroying your farming forces)
    Quarry 20-40 (depends on how much time you have to farm, if not much max them)
    Silver mine 20-40 (depends on how much time you have to farm, if not much max them)
    Temple 15-25 (depends on how many cities worship the chosen god)
    Marketplace  20-25 (depends on your situation, how often you send resources from that city)

    Special 
    Thermal Baths - always in every city
    Nothing for bigger nukes, Divine Statue if you have only few cities (once you get more cities and temples, get rid of them), Tower (if the city is constantly attacked

    Mixed Defensive City
    Locate it in the center (between all other cities with the shortest distance to them). Land and Naval defenses can be stacked in together. Biremes are very important for defending not only your cities but also your Colony Ships in a conquest world (usually successful CS raid attracts lots of enemy LS attacks).

    As I played in a conquest world I had some cities making only BMs and some making BMs and land defensive units at the same time. When defending a siege, you should focus on protecting the CS and you shouldn't need much land defense, except when you are being attacked by a city located on the same island or by very rare mythical nukes. I say that land defensive units are less important but it doesn't mean you can neglect them totally. There is always a possibility that enemy will break through with few transports or send at you Manticores/Harpies for example.

    I was also very offensively minded player and didn't have to defend my cities to much. I didn't really  lose anything combining naval and land defenses in a single build because of the defenses ability to stack. That way, if I had only one city in the range to support, I could use both types of defense instead of just one. That kind of a city should make land defensive units, Biremes and fast transports to be able to support quickly all of your other cities. It must be closest to all of them (center located).

    However the most effective way to defend your city is to use land units behind max level wall. Therefore if you are a player who has to defend your own cities often or if you play in a revolt world, where defending CS is not necessary, then the mixed defensive city is not for you. You will get better results by making two separate kinds of defensive cities: Naval and Land. This one is the most suitable for very offensively playing people who always put enough pressure on their enemies to not have to worry to much about defending cities (only sieges).



    Squad:
    Navy defense army: Biremes 210
    Land defense army: 360 Swordsmen + 120 Archers + 300 Hoplites 
    Fast transport ships: 48

    Technologies: 
    battering ram, shipwright, mathematics, plow, cartography, phalanx, trainer, conscription, light transport boat, bunks

    Buildings:
    Try to not waste to much population on your buildings - your city must serve you well not look pretty.

    (type/lvl) 
    Maxed
    Farm 40 always (no population cost)
    Warehouse 30 always (no population cost)
    Cave 10 always (no population cost)
    Academy 30

    City wall 25 unless its really in a safe zone then 0

    Limited
    Senate 15
    Timber camp 25-40
    Quarry 25-40 (depends on how much time you have to farm, if not much max them)
    Silver mine 20-40  (depends on how much time you have to farm, if not much max them)
    Harbour 20 (Biremes are more important than land troops)
    Barracks 15
    Temple 15-25 (depends on how many cities worship the chosen god)
    Marketplace  20-25 (depends on your situation, how often you send resources from that city)

    Special 
    Thermal Baths - always in every city
    Nothing for bigger nukes, Divine Statue if you have only few cities (once you get more cities and temples, get rid of them), Tower (if the city is constantly attacked)


    Navy Defensive City

    Basically similar to naval offensive city but making only Biremes. Read more about Biremes vs Fire Ships.

    Squad:
    Navy defense army: Biremes 330
    Farming forces: Horses 130 (only for as long as you have someone to farm on your island)

    Technologies: 
    battering ram, shipwright, mathematics, plow, cartography,

    Buildings:
    Try to not waste to much population on your buildings - your city must serve you well not look pretty.

    (type/lvl)
    Maxed
    Farm 40 always (no population cost)
    Timber camp 40
    Quarry 40
    Harbour 30
    Warehouse 30 always (no population cost)
    Cave 10 always (no population cost)
    Academy 30

    City wall 25 unless its really in a safe zone then 0

    Limited 
    Senate 15
    Silver mine 20-40 (depends on how much time you have to farm, if not much max them)
    Barracks 0-10 (get rid of them when destroying your farming forces)
    Temple 15-25 (depends on how many cities worship the chosen god)
    Marketplace  20-25 (depends on your situation, how often you send resources from that city)

    Special 
    Thermal Baths - always in every city
    Nothing for bigger nukes, Divine Statue if you have only few cities (once you get more cities and temples, get rid of them), Tower (if the city is constantly attacked)



    Land Defensive City

    Land defense gives you the biggest advantage, especially if you can hide your units behind lvl 25 walls. A defense prepared equally per farm space against all 3 types of attack should be made of 6 Swordsmen + 2 Archers + 5 Hoplites. However if you are being attacked more often by a specific type of attack (usually it is range attack - slingers) then adjust these numbers (vs range make more Swordsmen, vs blunt make more Hoplites).

    Squad:
    Land defense army: 945 Swordsmen +315 Archers +788 Hoplites (2047 pop total) 
    Fast transport ships: ~ 128

    I would strongly discourage to build standard (slow) Transport Boats - you have to be able to support with your units fast!

    Technologies 
    phalanx, trainer, conscription, shipwright, light transport boat, plow, bunk, cartography, 

    Buildings:
    Try to not waste to much population on your buildings - your city must serve you well not look pretty.

    (type/lvl)
    Maxed
    Barracks 30
    Farm 40 always (no population cost)
    Timber camp 20-40 (depends on how often you have to rebuild your units)
    Silver mine 20-40 (depends on how often you have to rebuild your units)
    Warehouse 30 always (no population cost)
    Cave 10 always (no population cost)
    Academy 30

    City wall 25 unless its really in a safe zone then 0

    Limited
    Senate 15
    Quarry 20-40 (depends on how much time you have to farm, if not much max them)
    Harbour 5-10 (you shouldn't need to rebuild transport ships often)
    Temple 15-25 (depends on how many cities worship the chosen god)
    Marketplace 20-25 (depends on your situation, how often you send resources from that city)

    Special 
    Thermal Baths - always in every city
    Nothing for bigger nukes, Divine Statue if you have only few cities (once you get more cities and temples, get rid of them), Tower (if the city is constantly attacked)


    Conquest City

    This is the most difficult city to organise. You need good amount of land troops (chariots+hoplites), LS to escort during the attack and Biremes to defend or better Triremes instead. Very useful are mythical units in this type of cities however to keep things simple I took them out from this example. Basically treat Cyclops as much better chariots and Hydras as much better Triremes (more about mythical units here).

    Once you conquer more cities, try to demolish as many buildings here as possible - lower temple level if you don't build Hydras here, walls can be demolished as well (if youre not attacked there), barracks can be minimal and definitely don't build any other special building except Thermal Baths.

    Basically if you ever prepare a conquest city, then you will not need to use it as often as offensive cities. Therefore more often than not, you will not have to rebuild much in here. All resources can and should be sent on regular bases to other cities, so keep your marketplace lvl rather high.

    Varguar commented:
    Grom, I would like to point out something that I have noticed that you have not covered. When you take over a new city if you have sent no myth units with the CS then the temple is not worshiping any god, but when you send over myth units the city will be worshiping the god that the myth units are from. So if your colony city is worshiping Poseidon then the new city will be worshiping that same god when conquest is over.

    Squad:
    Land attack/defense army:  400 hops + 150 chariots
    Slow transports: 38

    Navy forces:
    Trireme: 75
    Colony Ship 

    Technologies: battering ram, shipwright, mathematics, plow, cartography, hoplites, phalanx, trainer, conscription, bunks, chariot, triremes (and of course Conquest and Colony Ship but they dont cost any points)

    Buildings:
    Try to not waste to much population on your buildings - your city must serve you well not look pretty.

    (type/lvl)
    Maxed
    Farm 40 always (no population cost)
    Warehouse 30 always (no population cost)
    Cave 10 always (no population cost)
    Academy 30

    City wall 25 unless its really in a safe zone then 0

    Limited 
    Senate 15
    Timber camp 30-40 (depends on how much time you have to farm, if not much max them)
    Quarry 30-40
    Silver mine 30-40 (depends on how much time you have to farm, if not much max them)
    Barracks 15
    Harbour 20
    Temple 1-22 (you will need high level in your first city and if you produce hydras, otherwise get rid if it)
    Marketplace 20

    Special 
    Thermal Baths - always in every city
    Nothing


    If you have any question or would like to add anything, please leave your comment
    cheers :)


    116 comments:

    1. If you would like to tweak these templates to fit more your current needs then use "Building calculator" provided by grepostats. You can find a link to it on my side bar under "Grepo tools". Its very helpful with planning. Good luck :)

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. will you make a revolt city or do you not play in those worlds

        Delete
      2. I have never really played a revolt world so do not give advices for those type of worlds.

        Delete
    2. Fantastic!!!
      thanks it really helps... even the experienced as well as new beginers... *CHEERS*

      ReplyDelete
    3. Great guide, I learned some stuff I haven't seen before :)

      ReplyDelete
    4. How many manticores do you recommend getting if you have time to build them?

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    5. well, as many as you can in that city - the bigger wave (attack/def ratio) the better results.
      Usually people make 1 of their polis dedicated specially for that. You can build only 1 manticore at the time (cost 405 favour points).
      This is luxury to have a special manticores army and usually people with many cities can only afford that.
      I think you can have even ~50 manticores in 1 city but havent seen anyone with that many. I spend quiet often Zeus FPs to boost my navy attacks...

      ReplyDelete
    6. This is one crucial thing I disagree with; namely you said you do not need much defensive troops when protecting a conquest.

      I disagree with that because they are just as important as Biremes in some cases. I have seen players have nuke Harpes or other flying mythical creatures. It means if you have a bare troop count, these creatures will fly over the biremes without a scratch and take out all the troops there. Your conquest will be over.

      Having said that, I have indeed learnt new things here. I really do appreciate your time to fill these guides out.

      ReplyDelete
    7. You are right that sometimes you need land def units BUT not as many comparing to BMs. As I said in this guide:
      "Mind that I say that land def units are less important but it doesn't mean you can neglect them totally. There is always a possibility that enemy will break through with few transports or send at you manticors for example."

      Lets be honest, how many Manticores nukes have you seen? If you are hit by a Manticores nuke then you must be really unlucky, as it takes ages to build them. I was attacked by few (10-15) manticores but to defend against that force you dont need many land units. Also if there are other enemy cities on an island you might get hit by that many land nukes, this is something predictable (you can prepare for it). However to stop a nuke or two, few thousand def troops is enough.

      Now, what is many - on my server I need to have 3000-4000 BMs protecting my CS on average. One of our guys have 3400 LS alone but there are not many who can send 40-50 manticores (maybe 1 or 2 players). So possibility of being hit by LS is much more likely than by myth units.
      I usually have like 2-3k land units defending my CS which is more than enough but proportionally its much less population than all these BMs that I need.

      Happy to help and hope it clears things a bit.

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. how many manticores nukes?
        a lot... only one player in "my" server has 7/8 manticores nukes

        Delete
    8. If I have a city on my island that I want to farm. The player goes on rarely. His resource production for all resources is about 200. How often do you recommend farming him?

      ReplyDelete
    9. Do you recommend getting 300 horseman and using them as an attacking/farming force?

      ReplyDelete
    10. re farming
      if you have time as often as possible. It all depends how big his farms (timber camp, silver mine, quarry) are. The higher lvl the faster they can produce. In a world with speed 1, lvl 1 yields 8 units of timber/stone/silver per hour. If its faster world then 16. If its higher lvl of the building then it will be more (for exact numbers check this this table http://wiki.en.grepolis.com/wiki/Quarry)

      You can calculate it by yourself how quickly it will be 200 (Im guessing his warehouse is minimal)

      Usually smallest ghost towns give only 200 res.

      ReplyDelete
    11. re horses question:
      I dont like to make them becasue of what i said - it takes more time to make them and they are more expensive. Also for some strange reason people on my server usually love hoplites.

      I always have horses in each type of my towns purely for farming (they carry a lot and are fast). I never use them in attacks for very simple reason: if they die it will take lots of time to come back to normal productivity. I lose my farmers, so I cant farm any more and have to wait for resources to be produced...then I have to rebuild my horses - it takes ages.
      So if I dont send them away, when all my units die, I have at least farmers to gather resources quickly.

      Now if you have time and resources to build an army of horsemen then go for it. They MIGHT be better suited for your attacks (it all depends what sort of defensive units they hit). However if you send them to attack, then leave at least 130 in your city.

      ReplyDelete
    12. great guide!
      which would you recomnd for a second city?
      as i have no enimies to out allies and alliances
      alot of my allies are near me 3 on my island and like 5 on other islands(all just one island away!!)
      i am the second highest city(almost got enough to finaly conquer) for a few islands around

      ReplyDelete
    13. Usually first cities are not really specialised much. If you feel safe in your area I would say that you should go for an offensive city.
      In the eraly stage of game people usually dont tend to have big navy so focusing on land army is smarter. You will need it to take another city soon (collect BPs and defeat another player) - the more cities you have, the faster you can rebuild your army - look for fat/easy targets and dont take small towns which need a lot of building up.

      I dont know exactly your neighbours and alliances around so this is just general advice. Also being a part of an agressive alliance make things easier, than the one which is waiting to be attacked.

      ReplyDelete
    14. hmm i seee thanks i have conquered the city already and im building it up, as many of the people are small
      (ive already planned my second city a defenive city becuase my alliance was currently emailed that we were gonna get farmed..... well im not going to go down without a fight......)

      im looking to conquer yet another city, how far do u think a city can be? as i do not want to conquer a city on my island since there is not a fat player around

      ReplyDelete
    15. The Best City guide out there.

      <3 <3 <3 Love it

      ReplyDelete
    16. I have not read ALL of the posts here. However, your instructions for Conquest city state "Harbour 20 if you make hydras, if not 15 should be enough". That said, you must have a Harbor of lv. 20 in order to produce a Colony Ship.
      Other than that, I have learned a lot from your guide and really appreciate the time and effort you have put into making the game more enjoyable for others.
      Also, I have spoken with an old enemy of yours: He says you kicked his butt from one end of the ocean to the other end. he he he!!!

      ReplyDelete
    17. thank you - ive just read again this guide and there are few things i would have to correct, like the on eyou mentioned. I was typing things fast and didnt spend much time editing it. You must forgive me, writing these guides was only part of my hobby.

      re kicking someones butt - that was the most entertaining part of the game :D fighting with other people that is. Ive never really "farmed" weaker players for BPs (which i could easily) and always focused on the strongest/most important targets, like for example taking the enemy leader town on their wonder island 2 oceans away ;) that was fun. But yeah, I fought against the biggest alliances in my area traveling far away, having at the end of my game cities in 5 different oceans.

      Enemy alliances and players make this game so fun, even though we sometimes "hate" them. I was in charge of destroying 2 top (high rated) alliances on my server and never failed. They had thousands of cities and hundreds of members, but we didnt win by taking even 10% of their towns - we won by smartly eliminating the strongest players, by exposing their leaders lack of tactical, organisational and social skills, humiliating them and setting panic in their ranks.

      This is the part of strategy Ive never wrote guide for. Its important to have a sharp sword, but more important to know how to use it, if you know what I mean.

      ReplyDelete
    18. hey, its me again. I still think you are the "MAN" for putting this together. I just wish I had found it before I maxed-out all my cities (such a noob lol).
      Thanks for all your hard work!!! It has made the game more enjoyable on the worlds I have completed the above tasks.
      The only thing I do differently is keeping my silver production up in my Bireme cities. I like to bulk up my caves with 100k+ for spying.

      ReplyDelete
    19. Whatever works for you :) As I said, these are only guidelines, tweak them to suit you the best. I do agree that having caves full of silver gives big advantage. Very often people will not attack only because they dont know how big army you have there.

      Also when you try to spy, the best technique is to send many 1k spy missions rather than lets say 50k at once. When I was still playing this way I was able to deplete enemy caves from silver (big chunks somehow didnt do that..?) not mentioning spaming his report mail box and irritating shit out of him/her ;)

      ReplyDelete
    20. Has anyone tested destroying your Academy after you have trained everything. It seems to me that once you've learned something, even if you take your academy down, you keep the talents you've trained. ie if Zeus's lighting we're to take a lvl off your academy, you don't lose ram.

      ReplyDelete
    21. Precisely, but if you should decide to change the troops/ships production of that city, you will need to build it back up to level to do so.

      ReplyDelete
    22. Hey, Grom i read your guide awesome. I followed city specialization now i have about have my cities specialized. Especially, in offence but when my LS nukes are killed,it takes forever to rebuild to 300. Is 300 LS over specialization.

      ReplyDelete
    23. re SuperRae: no its not - the bigger wave the better. I know it takes ages to rebuild your fleet. At the end of my game I had 6 or 7 pure LS cities, so I could send ~1500 LS at anyone. If I destroyed them while attacking I would send resources from many cities around and cast Poseidon speed buff to build them back asap. My alliance was good in supplying, some people had 50+ cities and overflowing resources so they would send me some (I was one if not the most aggressive player in our alliance).

      Every of my cities had max lvl of market so I was able to move around big amounts of resources and basically I was doing that whole time.

      I was constantly loosing units and rebuilding them - non stop, sending nuke after nuke. Ofcourse not blindly, trying always to get the most out of my attacks but still...

      good luck in the game

      ReplyDelete
    24. can u take over a city on ur same island without a colony ship?

      ReplyDelete
    25. Grom, I would like to thank you for your work on this site. It has really helped me to get the full enjoyment out of this game.

      Ramseur - Athens World

      ReplyDelete
    26. How many pegasi would recommend having in a specialized Athena defense city?

      And by the way, the idea of demolishing buildings I don't like. A city can hold 3520 FS at the most. Minus the 1144 FS you need to build to get 13716 pts you get 2376 FS left over. You will then find yourself tight with a slinger nuke, but then cut at the resource mines, then you get a powerfull nuke but still maximising city points. And the farming army is unnecessary in 2.0.

      Having said that, thanks for all the time you've put into it. It's a brilliant guide!

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. I dont know how often people from your area use horsemen to attack. If most of the attacks are slinger nukes then Pegasi are not that great against them (swordsmen have 2 times better distance def stats). However, sometimes you might need any units FAST and you dont mind sacrifising them, then you will send pegasi which will be there much quicker than fast transport ships. What I try to say is that you should know limitations of that unit - its not great against most popular slinger nukes but better than nothing I guess. Sometimes you might be doing blind guess and just saending anything to hold a city.
        So now when you know advantages and disadvantaegs of the unit, you must decide by yourself how much resources you are willing to invest in this sort of defense. I cant tell you how many pegasi is good - there is no one correct answer to that question. As far as I remember I had only 1 pegasi city with ~40 of them - that was my last resort defense. But again, I had like 30+ cities back then...

        Re buildings - I dont play 2.0 but if you dont need farming forces then why put that extra FS into more buildings which you dont need? If I had free FS I would use them to build even bigger slinger/LS nukes or biremes or def units - whatever specialisation of that city is. What that 13,7k points give you? Prestige? It looks nicer? My point in this guide was that its impractical to put FS into every single building when you focus only on one type of units. If it makes you more happy to have maxed cities go for it, but in my opinion its just waste of FS which makes you weaker overall.

        Delete
    27. All of the recommendations here seem to assume a conquest system, while the new servers are mostly revolt. How, if at all, would you modify things for the revolt system, where bireme defenses are less important?

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. 1. There are 18 revolt worlds out of 32 that Im aware of. In the year 2011 9 conquest and 7 revolt worlds were opened. This year 4 revolt and 3 conquest ones. So Its more or less equal share of both types.

        2. I write guides basing on my experience - never played in a revolt world.

        3. However as far as I can imagine there are no differences in both systems to justify lack of Biremes. You still need to defend yourself against CS attack and additionally against revolt attacks proceeding it.

        4. As I said, Ive never played in a revolt world but cant find a reason to not have biremes or ignore them. Actually the opposite - in a conquest world you can dodge CS wave and kill it during 24hrs period after it lands. You cannot do that in a revolt world cus as soon as CS lands its game over. So to me it looks like you might need biremes more in a revolt world than in conquest one I imagine...


        I hope it somehow answers your question.

        Delete
      2. Im playing 2 type of world now, and i must say you will need to try revolt world sometime GROM. If we have 5-6 way of defending a CS in conquest then there are the same amount of way to plan a revolt :) - + I am amazed by how Harpy and Manticore became the most popular unit in those world (!! im building my own Manti army now and i must say its fun :))!)

        Oh! Thanks you very much for writing these guides :) - making my days in grepo more enjoyable =)

        Delete
      3. I might one day, atm no time for it :/ I used to have 1 Manti nuke but never really found good enough reason to use them... I was just a factory of slingers and LS - my enemies were under constant bombardment and I was busy moving resources around, trading them with villages, farming and rebulding armies. Keep your markets maxed lvl, move resources, trade them and with 20-50 cities you might not even need to farm any more.
        Myth nukes are nice but they will not win a war for you - thousands of LS and other regular nukes will (mostly slingers thanks to their fast production time and some horsemen). Yes, manticor nuke will win for you a battle in a big style, but never-ending bombardment of slingers and LS will make them cry even more. Good luck ;)

        Delete
    28. simple question if u have my academy to 35 level and i have research battering ram and phalanx do i loss does research if i decide to demolish my academy all the way to 2 level.

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. Demolishing the academy will not reset researches as far as I know. You have to use Culture Points to do that. If you took a badly made city, you will have to invest some CPs to fix those researches.

        On the other note, in my opinion you should never demolish the academy. Its one of the buildings that even though takes population, is worth every single Farm Space. Battering Ram, Phalanx etc are just to powerful to be ignored.

        Delete
    29. I believe this blog will help me a lot, but can u make you "Table of Contents:" linkable to the corresponding part of the article. Something like that(in case you dont know how):
      LINK WITHIN A PAGE TUTORIAL

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. Thanks for the advice, I was thinking about the same thing, however blogger doesnt provide this function in edit mode and everything has to be done manually in html. The problem is that blogger creates really messy html code where its hard to find anything.

        I did though what you asked for, mayhbe later will fix other long guides.

        Delete
      2. WOW. Really nice of you. Thanks!

        Delete
    30. Why not 100% bireme and 100% land defense city instead of mixed one? Less of a pain as you don't need fast transports for bireme city or battering ram for land defense?

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. True, I guess you could make a pure land defense city. Everything depends on your needs to be honest. On my server people usually were lacking LS and it was easier to defend with Biremes than with land troops, as most of them had plenty of land forces, defending a siege without walls wasnt that great and I was always destroying walls while clearing my target.

        I guess if youre more defending than attacking then having more land defensive forces will be better option as they provide bigger advantage behind walls. However as I said, it all comes down to your current needs.

        Thank you for your comment, I might in the near future add that otpion as well, will just have to make few calculations.

        Delete
    31. The guide was again updated, all numbers checked again to be accurate with 2.0. I also added a new part explaining favour points production and related temple levels.

      ReplyDelete
    32. Love your blogs GROM but i believe you missed hoplites as technology's in conquest build.But if someone looks at troop counts its obvious to get the tech.

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. thanks, I put hoplites there just in case ;) glad you like the guides

        Delete
    33. Hi Grom, great site.

      Reference Manti Nukes. I have just left Athens and 35 of my cities after my alliance collapsed and I had no wish to try another alliance.

      When I left I had a Manti City for Seige breaking and the effort in building all those Zeus Temples and Statues really paid off and I was making 4 a day.

      As a siege breaker it was awesome as the enemy would easily have thousands of Biremes there in no time but rarely would they get enough troops to stop 55+ Manties.

      I am now starting again in Pella having learnt the game and improved my knowledge of how it works thanks to this excellent site.

      R

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. yeah, its hard sometimes to find the right alliance.
        Thank you for the information about Manticores nuke. I actually updated the Perfect Nuke guide recently adding Manticores part. If you haven't seen it yet, maybe you could and if you have any comments please feel free to provide some feedback :)
        Good luck in Pella

        Delete
    34. Hi Grom.

      I just found this blog yesterday, and its awesome :)
      I started playing this game 2 months ago and currently have 5 cities. I actually have 3 questions.

      1. Is it a good idea to send my light ships to my bireme city nearby when i dont use them?

      2. How about building lighthouse in my bireme city instead of baths?

      3. I have defensive armies in my land offensive and navy cities (4-500 land units and 20-30 biremes). Should i get rid of them to get more FS?

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. Hi Anonymous,
        Im glad you like it. Now regarding your questions:
        1) It is ok to do that, at least better than to leave them alone, however LS are terrible in defense so this is only a "half-solution". It is a better idea to send your LS away so they come back when you are back. Before logging off send them to attack another player, a ghost town or even your own city as long as there are no Biremes. The last option is not always possible because travel time is usually to short. Maybe you can find a small player (200-500 points) who is far enough, so your LS make a trip there and come back on time or if you dont need to use them just send them for a really long trip (taking days). Lets say you wont need your fleet for another 6 days - attack a small player who is 72 hrs away from you.

        2) That it is really up to you. I always try to give the best advices but these are just "guides", not recipes and will not always fit every single situation. I only say what I think is the best way of using available FS. Now after saying that, Im not a big fan of LH in offensive cities, unless your LS factory is really far away from your enemies (like an ocean away). The reason for that is the Population Cap - I prefer extra 30 LS to get a more effective and efficient attack rather than save few minutes of the trip. However with a Bireme city its not such a bad idea to skip 37 Biremes in favor of speed. The question you need to ask is if you really need that boost right now? In the beginning (you have only 5 cities), distance between your cities in not big, so the time you save will be neglectable. You probably have only 1 BM city (shouldn't need more) so making most out of it (building extra BMs) would be a better idea I think.
        LH is more important when the interesting you distance is really big (between your cities, your allies, or cities you would like to conquer and hold). Till then you can still use Cartography (research) which provides extra 10% speed. LHs extra 15% will stack as far as I know, so it will be 125% total with the research and LH. The bottom line, I think you will not see big difference in short travel times.

        Delete
      2. 3)I would get rid of those if you are an active player (can log in often). Those units limit the effectiveness of your offensive armies and the power with which you attack.
        In my guide I advice to keep some basic defense only in the beginning and if you have no time to log in often enough. Lets be honest - if someone prepares a strong attack against you, those 500 land units and 30 BMs will not save your city. I proposed in the guide a defense made of 180 Swordsmen, 60 Archers and 150 Hoplites (390 units total) which with 250 militia and lvl 20 walls is enough to stop ~750 Slingers. In the beginning its really enough but it will not stop a real nuke. A full nuke can be stopped with more units but if you build in every city defensive units that can stop a nuke, then you will have very weak attacks and will grow slower.

        You just cant put enough land defense in every city to protect them from land nukes attacks. Building defense for every single city will change you into a turtle - a very slowly growing player who thinks he is safe. The problem with it is that maybe the first attack will not kill you, but other players will have more cities than you (they grew and conquered cities faster thanks to more offensive cities) and will be able to send more attacks which will take you down eventually. Therefore dont try to protect every city you have.

        Try to keep the aggressive style of play and secure yourself with a wise diplomacy. Pick the right targets, get in a good alliance and dont anatogonise stronger players than you (at least not yet). Build pure offensive cities and be ready to react fast when being attacked. If you want to keep some small defenses against small and quick attacks then build your BMs in your BM city and send little parts to each city you want to defend (you will need 65-75 BMs to stop 50-60 LS). Its not the best idea though since if you are atatcked, you will have to recall them to be able to send to the attacked city and it will take to much time.


        You have only 5 cities, so 1 of them has to be a CS city and making 2 defensive (BMs and Land Defense) will leave you with only 2 offensive cities, which will slow you down a lot. I would make one mixed defense city and build more BMs than land units.

        In a conquest world its more probable that an enemy will break your siege with LS than with flying mythical units. In a conquest city make Triremes, Hoplites and Chariots (as you will need to defend sieges). That will leave you with 3 offensive cities: make 2 land nukes and 1 LS fleet. With 3 offensive nukes you will be able to break any siege in a conquest world if you act quick enough and don't have a whole alliance against yourself.

        In a revolt world, first clearing (revolt) attack will kill your puny defenses anyway. I think the best way is to make more BMs in the beginning of revolt worlds, because players will not have big LS fleets and will not use breakthrough attacks that often. Sniping with defensive waves in a revolt world is something that you should focus on. Revolt worlds are bit tricky and its tempting to have defense in each city. What you can do is to keep some BMs in the cities which are located close to the potential threats (enemy cities). You can spy them to see what they have there (to see if they are actually a threat to you). Remember that if you lose a city to somebody, you can quickly get it back by having strong offensive forces but only if you have those units.

        The bottom line is that nothing is gonna save you if you become a target of an organised group and will not have equally good group to support you. Against a player of your size, you will do just fine with 1 defensive city at the moment. The best defense are good politics, so be a part of a closely located and organised group.

        Delete
      3. PS I wanted to underline that I was speaking about early stage of the game. If your enemy can afford LS fleets then naturally land defense will be more effective to defend a city (not a siege though, because CS can be sunk with only LS, so in a conquest world BMs are really important to keep an offensive style of game). Just make sure to have Fast Transport Ships in your defensive city. They are as fast as Biremes.

        Delete
      4. Thanks.
        I will take your advice :)

        Delete
      5. I wrote quite a long reply and still when I read it now, there are many "shortcuts" that I used and which dont explain everything. Sorry for that. Just would like to precise few things:

        Basically I tried to say that by building defensive units in every city you cripple yourself. You cant protect every city and still be able to effectively attack other players. Therefore you should build one defensive city and send def units to cities that are most likely to be attacked or support only when you see an incoming attack.

        In a conquest world BMs are necessary for conquers (to hold the siege), so they are part of anyone's offensive operations. That is not the case in revolt worlds, where players can build them but don't have to (they can defend only with land units which are more effective behind the City Wall).

        Lastly, if you lose a city, it will be much easier to get it back if you have offensive armies and not only defending units in all of your cities.

        Delete
    35. I have one more question i forgot to ask.
      In a revolt world how important to have conquest city? Wouldn't be a better choice to have one more land offensive city where i have enough FS for a colony ship?
      In a revolt world i get the city as soon as the CS reaches it, so i dont need triremes and hops to protect the ship. Instead of triremes and hops i could send slingers and LS with my CS from my land offensive city. What do u think?

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. Yes, in the revolt world you don't need to defend your CS so multitask units are not as important as in a conquest world. However Im not an expert in revolt worlds - never really played seriously one.
        Definitely LS are better choice for attacks than Triremes. Regarding Hoplites it depends on the enemy land defense composition. Most of the time Slingers or Horsemen provide the best attack. If you don't know what Im saying here please read my guide about attacking. Hoplites might be better than Slingers if the enemy has plenty of Swordsmen but doesn't have many archers.

        In a revolt world you can build a CS in one of your nuke cities - so I personally would send CS with many LS and some land units (Horsemen or Slingers). Its really hard to give the best advice here as everything depends on what the defender can use - a CS attack that takes into account all possibilities would be made of mixed units - LS, Slingers and Horsemen (I skipped Hoplites, because usually people have enough Archers to block them).

        I would love to hear opinions of people who played a lot in a revolt world and who can share their experience here.

        Delete
    36. hi, what gods do you have in your def/off city's? i have atm 12 city's and i dont know which gods i should take for them.
      i have 1 conquest,2 sea nuke, 2 land nuke 7 def city's because we are at ware with a big enemy.

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. You can invest in 3 or 4 gods, spreading temple levels equally. If you read the part of my guide focusing on FV production you should understand that its best to pick all gods and not invest in only one heavily, because of diminishing returns. Each god gives you some valuable defensive and offensive spells/boosts. The only exception is Hades who in my opinion is the weakest of all gods (still one city can be dedicated to him).

        Hera is good for defending cause you can cast Desire on enemy attacks and Population Growth to rebuild your units faster (really great spell).

        Poseidon and Zeus give similar defensive spells (Sea Storm and Zeus Rage) but Poseidon will also provide production boost - Call of the Ocean (like Population Growth). Land defense gives better results than navy (Biremes) so if you dont play in a conquest world and dont have to protect your CS during sieges then Call of the Ocean will be used mainly to rebuild LS fleets. Poseidon has only 1 offensive spell, Earthquake, which is rather expensive and imo you can live without it (just change your target instead of trying to lower the walls level of a well defended city).

        Zeus has 2 offensive spells: Favorable Wind and Lightening Bolt. FW is a must for navy attacks.

        Athena has very good offensive spell - Heroic Power. City protection is situational and not that useful. The same I can say about Wisdom - if you are being attacked all the time by many cities then you will not be able to check every single attack.

        Hades imo is good only for silver production. His resurrecting spell is very expensive and its best suited for first clearing waves.

        So, considering that you are more focused on defending and will probably counter-attack sometimes (need offensive power as well) I would definitely dedicate most of my temples to Hera and Poseidon (both providing excellent speed production boosts and defensive spells). 3rd on my priority list would be Zeus then Athena.

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    37. whats your opinion on the cerberus? the problem i see is that when you build too many of them then you lack in normal def for your CS or other players that have not hades as god and when you cant send them you have an unbalanced def because you dont build many swordman with cerberus but many archer for thier weakness.

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    38. The problem you are talking about is the same for all defensive mythical units - its their biggest limitation (that they can be used only in cities which worship their god). They are not well suited for supporting other players, unless you get lucky and the city you want to support worships the same god.
      The best way to use them in my opinion is to support cities which you know you will need to defend. Lets say you are taking a new city which you know will be attacked or you have a city which is in a dangerous zone. Then you make that city to worship Hades and send Cerberi there from the city which is their base.

      Basically you have the same city that supports your other city which is most often attacked. Then you can recall them and use in other place but of course making sure that Hades is in there. However you might not be able to constantly switch gods because each time you lose all FPs (although it might not be a problem if you dont mind spending all of them).

      Regarding building "to many of them" - its all situational. Some enemies will have only slinger nukes but some will have mix of attacking units. You can try to balance out your defenses by building archers with cerberi. Defense prepared proportionally for each type of attacks is made of 6 Swordsmen + 2 Archers + 5 Hoplites (31.6% blunt/ 28.1% sharp/ 40.4% range). Check things in my calculators and see how many Cerberi and how many archers you need to build to get close to this ratios UNLESS you know that you are going to be attacked more often by a specific type of units and adjust the numbers accordingly.

      good luck

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    39. Great knowledge base, credit to you!

      I was somewhat surprised by your recommendation for a land def city. I did the following math;
      Sword Archer Hoplite Pegasus Total def. Total pop.
      #civilians/unit 1 1 1 20
      #units 945 315 788 0 2048
      blow 14 6 18 900
      point 8 25 12 250
      distance 30 12 7 300
      blow 13.230 1.890 14.184 - 29.304
      point 7.560 7.875 9.456 - 24.891
      distance 28.350 3.780 5.516 - 37.646


      Sword Archer Hoplite Pegasus
      #civilians/unit 1 1 1 20
      #units 440 810 0 40 2050
      blow 14 6 18 900
      point 8 25 12 250
      distance 30 12 7 300
      blow 6.160 4.860 - 36.000 47.020
      point 3.520 20.250 - 10.000 33.770
      distance 13.200 9.720 - 12.000 34.920

      (it's an excel file but i can't seem to get columns properly aligned...)
      Or is my calculation wrong?

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      Replies
      1. Im sorry but I dont understand your post. If you could elaborate bit more that would help.
        cheers

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      2. You suggest for a land def city 945 swords, 315 archers and 788 hoplites. If you calculate (as in the first table in my post) the defensive power it adds up to 29304 to blow, 24891 to point and 37646 to distance.
        In the second table I postes I have done the calculation for 440 swords, 810 archers and 40 pegasus. This adds up to a defensive power of 47020 blow, 33770 point and 34920 to distance. So this seems preferable.
        I've done the calculation in Excel. Is my calculation wrong or is there a strategic concept that i miss?

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      3. You should not compare regular units to mythical creatures. The latter ones are much stronger but have limitations as well. Its totally a different story.

        I provide examples (numbers) only for regular units as these are bread and butter for every player and will make most of the defensive units. They are cheap, fast to make and can be sent anywhere, while mythical creatures are usually more expensive, take longer and need favour points to be produced. Mythical units can only support cities which worship the same god and you cant send them to support sieges (in a conquest world), which are very limiting factors. Therefore their use is very limited.

        Obviously I could have came up with some defenses made of cerberi or pegasi which would be much stronger than sword/arch/hopl combo but for the above reasons I didnt do that.

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    40. Hi GROM, great guide.

      In 1 speed world mostly players use slingers or hoplites.I meet horsemen very seldom.I think 2 swordsmen and 1 archers is the best ratio there.

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      1. I played world speed 1 and it wasnt the case. Its your own personal experience. I always advice to use my guides as "guides" only and adjust things accordingly. Thanks for comment though.

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    41. Knight of Honor3 August 2012 10:54

      Do you play now?

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. No, Im retired (for the time being)...

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    42. Knight of Honor4 August 2012 20:07

      and not planning to come back?

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. unfortunately atm I dont have time for it

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    43. Thank you for your great guides ! I was kind of lost in this game, but now i'm slowly growing and having fun !
      But here is a question about the conquest city.
      If i escort my CS with hydras and cyclops, won't the attack go back to my base if the attacked city isnt worshiping Zeus ?

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      Replies
      1. Mythical units you send to support your CS after it lands, will return but not those which you sent with it, unless innogames have changed it in some patch. So basically those units which you send with your CS should stay to defend it (at least it was like that when I was playing).
        PS Cyclops and Hydras belong to Poseidon, not Zeus :)

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      2. That is still correct as of 14/08/2013

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    44. Grom, I would like to point out something that I have noticed that you have not covered. When you take over a new city if you have sent no myth units with the CS then the temple is not worshiping any god, but when you send over myth units the city will be worshiping the god that the myth units are from. So if your colony city is worshiping Poseidon then the new city will be worshiping that same god when conquest is over. I thought you would like to add this to your information on Conquest, since I hate having to change gods after I take over a new city.

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      1. Oh didn't know that. When I was still playing I had to pick a god each time I took a new city. It was annoying as well, because sometimes I forgot about it and week later was like "oh $%£%^% didn't pick a god"... They must have changed it then. Thanks for the info.

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      2. Many thanks Varguar. I took a city called Cerebus Home and sent a couple of Cerbs with the CS... well just because. There were some Harpies in the defending forces, so I figured the city worshipped Hera. I was confused when I took it and found it worshipped Hades. This finally explains the mystery!

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    45. Is it stupid to send both biremes and LS in attack from a conquest city? Was thinking maybe triremes are better but they're worst then bm in defense and worst than ls in attack and since most of the times my CS wave doesn't hit anything it is better to throw a good amount of bms in there so that I reduce my losses in the siege stage? And if he gets lucky with sniping I would loose my colony ship anyway with or without biremes

      Then 2nd question can u end the siege and send a new CS with defense only few seconds later so that you don't waste attackers in defending the city?

      3rd question when I was dodging in revolt worlds I could send defenders away to a close city and call them back before CS. The difference here is that after CS you don't loose the city yet. So I was wondering: Can I do the same with attackers? (somehow send attackers away few seconds before CS hit and then they will come back to attack the siege?) Is it possible? Do I have a wild imagination?

      Thank you : )

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    46. 1. No it is not stupid to send mix of LS and BMs with your CS, its just not as good as Triremes only escort in terms of attack/defense strength.

      However, blindly following guides is not a good idea eighter. In your case, if you say that more often than not, you do not have to fight any BMs but have only problems defending a siege, then of course go with more Biremes.

      Additionally I would not expect someone with 1 city to have a fleet of Triremes for CS. It is something for people who already have LS and BM fleet and can afford to have those special units (Triremes are useful only for CS escort).

      2. Yes it is possible but be sure that your CS with defensive only units will not have to attack any enemy defending units.

      3.Yes, this is what people do. If they want to fight, they will leave only defensive units and send offensive units away. When they come back, they will attack enemy defensive units.

      Good luck!

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    47. How can u build a lv 15 Senate, and build the Termal Baths ? they need 24 senate to be build :(

      ReplyDelete
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      1. You build senate to level 24, then rest of the buildings and at the end decrease senate's level. It frees up some population which can be used for army units.

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      2. Thanks !! I thought that if u do that, the buildings which need senate in a higher level, would be destroyed.
        The best guide !

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      3. When you build the Senate level dictates the length of the build time, i.e. the higher the Senate level, the shorter the build. Is this true of demolishing? The reason I ask is that I am about to remodel all my cities following this guide and wonder should I be leaving demolishing the Senate until last. Also does the same apply to Architecture?

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      4. I would leave destroying Senate for the end, if you are going to build other structures.

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    48. Its me again.
      Ive just started a new world, and decided to follow the Conquest City as my first one (let me know if its a mistake).
      I do some maths, and with 38 Slow Transports, you cant take the 400 hoplit and 150 charriots. So.. I should make more transports or less units ? or just build other thing for my first village.
      Thanks !

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. First of all are you sure that you took into account research Bunks and Plow and max farm?
        Anyway, I would not make a Conquest City my first one. Building so many hoplites and chariots especially, will be too hard in the beginning and will slow your development too much. Its cool to have a conquest city when you control many cities but not when you got only one. With one city just make some slingers and defensive units. Sent them separately of course (slingers to clear a target and defensive units to hold it).
        Even better if you join other players and ask for help during your first conquest. Then you could split tasks - you would focus only on clearing or only defending.

        Conquest city is for an advanced players with at least a few cities under their control. Its expensive and slow to make (or rebuild)

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    49. GROM, Thermal Baths require level 24 Senate, therefore Senate cannot be 15 as suggested by your guide...

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. If you were as quick in reading as you are in typing, you would see that only a few comments above (9th of Jan) it is explained how to do it. If you lack experience ask and don't make silly statements.

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      2. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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      3. Try to express your thoughts in a more constructive, less vulgar and offensive way or stay away from this blog.

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    50. Reading through, I noticed that the 'Mixed defensive city ' and the 'land defensive city' are almost the same thing. Apart from the land units size, what 's the difference between them? And why/when would you use one over the other?

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. The difference between them is that Mixed defensive city has land and sea units, while land defensive city has only land units. The difference between both in number of land units is big. Same thing with Navy defensive city which has many more Biremes than a mixed one.

        Now, if you dont have many cities or can have only one close to a potential enemy target then a mixed city provides more flexibility. You can send navy units to city A and land units to city B.

        In a conquest world where you have to defend CS during the siege, you would prefer to have very closely located mixed defensive city (with more Biremes), especially if you are planning to surprise your enemy with a quick conquest like when performing GROMs maneuver.

        Proposed number of 210 Biremes should more or less hold against an average LS nuke and be able to easily wipe a land nuke (with a small LS escort).

        Mixed city is for more offensively minded players who need more flexibility and can create enough offensive pressure to never be forced into becoming a turtle.

        Lastly remember that the most effective and efficient defense is land defense behind high walls.

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    51. Quick comment on phalanx... notice you research in land defense cities... am I wrong that it doesn't affect YOUR units if they are supporting a city without phalanx? Like it's pretty much worthless to you if no one attacks that particular city

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      Replies
      1. Good point. As far as I remember you are correct but where would you put those research points instead?

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      2. You're probably just filling space at that point, you've nailed everything that'd help you be more Defensier :) Mathematics maybe? Save yourself a few bucks... Btw, thanks so much for this fantastic sight, I really appreciate all the beautiful work that went into this.

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      3. I wish I had more time to re-edit the articles I made and to upload some new stuff. So many ideas, so little time.

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    52. Hey man, we've got our world wonder islands set up and most of the city slots filled, I was wondering if you had an opinion on how to craft the city on the actual island, or if you have this covered somewhere already you wouldn't mind pointing me in the right direction

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      Replies
      1. Hi, I apologize for late response but I was away for 3 weeks and had limited access to the internet.

        I have no experience with a world wonder island. You can always send materials from other cities so you don't have to prioritize resources here. You could make it a defensive city - if it is being attacked you will have army there to protect you and your allied neighbors.

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    53. Hi GROM,
      Great blog.
      Question: What if on Mixed Defensive city or Land Defensive city, we use archers instead of Horsemen for farming?

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      Replies
      1. Hi, I apologize for late response but I was away for 3 weeks and had limited access to the internet.

        You can use archers, however if you farm other players, they can easily wipe them out with militia. If they are inactive, you will still lose a unit or two even if there are no walls left. Archers are slow as well.

        It is "ok" to use them but as long as enemy player is inactive (and check if you lose any units while farming).

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    54. Thanks for the guide. I am starting completely new. My first island is a Land Defensive city with Hera.

      What I didn't read in the guide is city type ratios. For example, how many Land Defensive, Navy Defensive islands should I build versus Land Offensive, Navy Offensive. Let's say you have 21 islands. 1 Conquest. Should the remaining 20 be 5 Land defensive, 5 Navy defensive, 5 Land offensive and 5 Navy Offensive?

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. First of all, you should NOT make your first city a defensive one. You have to farm other players or conquer their cities. How are you going to achieve that and grow without offensive units? If you plan to build a 2nd city from scratches then you slow down so much that most of the active players around you will get bigger much faster and conquer you at some point.

        Regarding "city type ratio", I don't think anyone should stick to specific numbers. You adjust accordingly to your current needs. As a general advice I can say that Conquest city is for advanced players with many cities. I would start with Land offensive city. Then it depends - are you threatened by your neighbours, do you have a strong alliance standing behind you?

        In the area where you are being attacked very often I would make my 2nd city a defensive city, if not, you can create a mixed defensive city to provide some naval defensive support for your CS if you play a conquest type of world.

        You see everything depends on how your enemies play. If they are defensive you focus on offensive units and keep attacking them. If they are aggressive then you mix offensive and defensive cities. You can never focus only on defense. If you have to defend, you should always have some units to counter attack in order to put some pressure on your rivals. Otherwise they will grind you down.

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    55. Hey Grom,
      I was wondering for a defensive type of city what would be the most important unit or ship of it? would you say biremes or land units (you could use a specific unit if you think that unit is that important).
      thanks!

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. Hi,
        The best possible defense are defensive units behind the high wall.

        The highest overall defense value between regular units has Swordsman but Archer is not far behind. These 2 units are bread and butter of every strong defense.

        However if you ask about the best unit, it would be Pegasus, then Cerberus and Medusa.

        Pegasi with Centaurs (or Archers) are perfect combo (also note, that you can mix 2 mythical units in the same place as it is the same god). Just add a few swordsmen for extra distance defense and put them behind 25 lvl wall.

        Biremes are necessary for Conquest worlds, where you have to protect your CS during 24 hrs of siege. Therefore even though it is not the most efficient way of defending, you are forced to use Biremes because of the game rules.
        However, this is a different type of defense - it is an offensive way of using defensive units (when you attack enemy city).

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    56. The most complete,most sistematic,and simplest guide on Grepolis available on web.Better than Grepolis Wiki. Congratulations,keep it up.

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. Thanks for this very positive comment. I am not free from mistakes but I try to make my guides as good as possible :)

        Delete
    57. You mention light transport ships as part of your conquest specialization. Isn't that a waste of farm spaces when slow transports are plenty fast to accompany a cs?

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      Replies
      1. It would be a waste of FS but I do not propose FTS for my conquest city. I say there: slow (underlined)transport boats. You must have seen it in a different part of this guide.

        Delete
      2. Hi, I understand that I am pretty late to the party here but I wanted to bring up a topic I was reading in one of your comments, referring to spying. You said that to use 1k spies until you deplete his/her cave (This was on the 14th of October, 2011). Wouldn't you believe that having the element of surprise to get the jump on the enemy would be better, you monitor his activity such as when he is online and such. You spy before this as not to waste your time scouting him out. Once you figure out the times he comes on and such, you launch your attack. This I believe works exceptionally well if they are close to you for a less travel distance. By the time they get back on you can practically have your CS at their doorstep preventing them from getting reinforcements in time. This is less of a question, more of me just sharing ideas to see what you think about it.

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      3. That is something I was doing in the beginning as well but for some reason sometimes I could not get rid of silver in the opponent's cave. Me and my teammates would send 50-100k spies and nothing. At some point somebody told me that you take away more silver of the opponent's cave by sending small amounts than by sending all at once. Is it really like that? I cant remember now but there was even a discussion about it on the grepo forum and I might be wrong but I think one of the moderators confirmed it.

        Thanks for sharing though - any constructive comments are more than welcomed.

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      4. Thanks for the reply, my message may have seemed a bit negative, not intended to. I spent a day today locked away in my room reading all of your guides in here, and they are very well organized. Thanks for the time and effort you put into these guides, I couldn't do any better.

        - Person from the spying comment

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    58. GROM Thank you so much for all the hard work. I use your guides as pretty much my bible for playing. Just one question. In your Conquest City build you have Fast Transports as one of the technologies, but then the Naval Fleet is all slow transports. I understand the use of slow, because the limiting factor is the CS speed, so why research the fast boats in that city?

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      Replies
      1. Honestly I do not know :) probably a copy/paste typo. I do say before "slow transport ships", even underlined "slow", so do not know why I put that under research...will fix it now.

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    59. Thank you so much for your awesome guide. Just a few seconds ago, i easily defended a huge attack consisting of:


      Slingers-820
      Hoplites-550
      Light Ships-100
      Catapults-25

      I was only using a complete Mixed Defense city with a full wall and tower. I cant wait to get my other defense cities ready to go!!

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      Replies
      1. Awesome! This is music for my ears :)

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